Brothers in Arms (133 page)

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Authors: Odd Arne Westad

Tags: #Political Science, #International Relations, #General, #test

BOOK: Brothers in Arms
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four pests"
14
have altogether been eliminated; and they can hardly find any of their "friends." Even if they spread some germs [in China], it will have no use at all.
Since the end of the World War II, every capitalist country has suffered from instability which has led to disturbance and disorder. Every country in the world is disturbed, and China is no exception. However, we are much less disturbed than they are. I want you to think about this issue: Between the socialist countries and the imperialist countries, especially the United States, which side is more afraid of the other after all? In my opinion, both are afraid [of the other], but the issue is who is afraid more. I am inclined to accept such an assessment: The imperialists are more afraid of us. However, such an assessment entails a danger, that is, it could put us into a three-day-long sleep. Therefore, [we] always have to stress two possibilities. Putting the positive possibility aside, the negative potential is that the imperialists may become crazy. Imperialists always harbor malicious intentions and constantly want to make trouble. Nevertheless, it will not be that easy for the imperialists to start a world war; they have to consider the consequences once war starts.
[Let me] also talk about Sino-Soviet relations. In my view, wrangling [between us] will continue. [We shall] never pretend that the Communist parties will not wrangle. Is there a place in the world where wrangling does not exist? Marxism itself is a wrangling-ism and is about contradiction and struggle. Contradictions are everywhere, and contradictions invariably lead to struggle. At present there exist some controversies between China and the Soviet Union. Their [the Soviets'] ways of thinking, behavior, and historical traditions differ from ours. Therefore, we must try to persuade them. Persuasion is what I have always advocated as a way to deal with our own comrades. Some may argue that since we are comrades, we must be of the same good quality, and why in the world is persuasion needed among comrades? Moreover, persuasion is often employed for building a common front and always targeted at the democratic figures, and why is it employed toward Communist Party members? This reasoning is wrong. Different opinions and views do exist even within a Communist Party. Some have joined the party, but have not changed their mind-set. Some old cadres do not share the same language with us. Therefore, [we] have to engage in heart-to-heart talks with them: sometimes individually, sometimes in groups. In one meeting after another we will be able to persuade them.
As far as I can see, circumstances are beyond what persons, even those occupying high positions, can control. Under the pressure of circumstance, those in the Soviet Union who still want to practice big-power chauvinism will invariably encounter dif-
14
In traditional China, flies, bedbugs, rats, and mosquitos; in the 1950s, "local tyrants," "enemy agents," "members of reactionary parties," and "heads of secret societies."

 

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ficulties. To persuade them remains our current policy and requires us to engage in direct dialogue with them. The last time our delegation visited the Soviet Union, [we] openly talked about some [controversial] issues. I told Comrade Zhou Enlai over the phone that, as those people are blinded by lust for gain, the best way to deal with them is to give them a tongue-lashing. What is [their] asset? It involves nothing more than 50 million tons of steel, 400 million tons of coal, and 80 million tons of oil. How much does this count? It does not count for a thing. With this asset, however, their heads have gotten really big. How can they be Communists [by being so cocky]? How can they be Marxists? Let me stress, even ten times or a hundred times bigger, these things do not count for a thing. They have achieved nothing but digging a few things out of the earth, turning them into steel, thereby manufacturing some airplanes and automobiles. This is nothing to be proud of! They, however, turn these [achievements] into huge burdens on their back and hardly care about revolutionary principles. If this cannot be described as being blinded by lust for gain, what else could this be? Taking the office of the first secretary can also become a source for being blinded by lust for gain, making it easy for one to be out of one's mind. Whenever one is out of his mind, there must be a way to bring him back to his senses. This time Comrade [Zhou] Enlai no longer maintained a modest attitude but quarreled with them and, of course, they argued back. This is a correct attitude, because it is always better to make every [controversial] issue clear face to face. As much as they intend to influence us, we want to influence them too. However, we did not unveil everything this time, because we must save some magic weapons [in reserve]. Conflict will always exist. All we hope for at present is to avoid major clashes so as to seek common ground while reserving differences. Let these differences be dealt with in the future. Should they stick to the current path, one day, we will have to expose everything.
As for us, our external propaganda must not contain any exaggeration. In the future, we shall always remain cautious and modest, and shall tightly tuck our tails between our legs. We still need to learn from the Soviet Union. However, we shall learn from them rather selectively: only accept the good stuff, while at the same avoiding picking up the bad stuff. There is a way to deal with the bad stuff, that is, we shall not learn from it. As long as we are aware of their mistakes, [we] can avoid committing the same mistakes. We, however, must learn from anything that is useful to us and, at the same time, we must grasp useful things all over the world. One ought to seek knowledge in all parts of the world. It would be monotonous if one only sticks to one place to receive education.
Source: Zhonghua renmin gongheguo waijiaobu and Zhonggong zhongyang wenxian yanjiusuo, eds.,
Mao Zedong waijiao wenxuan
[Selected Mao Zedong works on foreign affairs] (Beijing: Zhongyang wenxian, 1994), 280-3.

 

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XI. Record of conversation, Mao Zedong and Soviet Ambassador to Beijing Pavel Iudin, July 22, 1958
In the summer of 1958, with the Great Leap Forward well underway in China, Mao sensed a trend toward a global revolutionary upswing. His criticism of the Soviet leaders for ignoring these developments grew harsher and his fears of getting his new policies shackled by Soviet influence within China became more acute. Mao was particularly fearful of Soviet influence within the military. At a meeting of the Central Committee's Military Committee, which ended the day the recorded conversation with Iudin took place, Mao had criticized many of his generals for "systematic dogmatist errors" and for following a bourgeois military line." Therefore, Iudin's airing in a meeting with Mao on July 21 of Soviet ideas about the creation of a joint Sino-Soviet submarine fleet could not have come at a worse time. The Soviet leaders were horrified when learning of Mao's fury, especially since they had intended the suggestions for naval cooperation as a response to numerous Chinese requests in the spring of 1958 for assistance with naval technology, the most recent in a letter from Zhou Enlai on June 28, 1958.
After you left yesterday I could not fall asleep, nor did I have dinner. Today I invite you over to talk a bit more so that you can be [my] doctor: [After talking with you], I might be able to eat and sleep this afternoon. You are fortunate to have little difficulty in eating and sleeping.
Let us return to the main subject and chat about the issues we discussed yesterday. We will only talk about these issues here in this room! There exists no crisis situation between you and me. Our relationship can be described as: nine out of ten fingers of yours and ours are quite the same with only one finger differing. I have repeated this point two or three times. You haven't forgotten, have you?
I've thought over and again of the issues that were discussed yesterday. It is likely that I might have misunderstood you, but it is also possible that I was right. We may work out a solution after discussion or debate. It appears that [we] will have to withdraw [our] navy's request for [obtaining] nuclear-powered submarines [from the Soviet Union]. Barely remembering this matter, I have acquired some information about it only after asking others.
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There are some warmhearted people at our navy' s headquarters, namely, the Soviet advisers. They asserted that, now that the Soviet nuclear submarines have been developed, we can obtain [them] simply by sending a cable [to Moscow].
15
Mao referred to Zhou Enlai and Peng Dehuai who were present during this discussion.

 

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