Secret and Suppressed: Banned Ideas and Hidden History (57 page)

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We haven’t really talked about people that you meet and encounter as part of the Organization, the gossip and shop talk, where they happen.

My position is something like Inspector General, and I’m known in certain segments of the Organization, but not all segments. With that unique situation Otto allows me a great deal of freedom. If there’s a particular operation that’s being planned or is in process, and he feels that he wants an independent observer, I’d be over there. I’d be going two times, three times, four times a year to Europe to observe the operations, as I say, in both planning and operational stage, and then reporting back to him through my drops in Europe. I wouldn’t have to directly contact him for that.

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What sort of operations are these? I know that you’ve mentioned that the first one was at the Paris Airshow in ‘71, where you met with S. So, ideally in chronological order, which operations were you overseas for and reported on?

Most of the principal terrorist operations that took place in Europe, I was there to observe. I’m talking about the hijackings. There was one obscure one — I could never figure out why I was supposed to be there observing it, but I was there to observe the hijacking out of Malmo, Sweden. I was told to contact — I don’t know his name, but I was to be on a certain train that ran between Copenhagen and Oslo and crosses over at Heltenborg on a train ferry. At that point a representative would contact me, and know me by sight. It turned out that this man was a representative of Bofors Corporation. They have a number of irons in the fire, sort of a Swedish Mitsubishi Corporation, not just the Bofors guns. He would be filling me in on what had taken place up to the time when I had gotten there, and what was going to take place. Then I would stay in the general vicinity, usually in these little obscure pensiones and hotels, and observe and report back through a mail drop.

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We’ll talk about the other hijacking afterwards, but right now, Malmo. What airline? SAS?

I don’t even recall. It was so obscure and nothing of importance came of it. Was I being tested, were there doubts about my reliability? Was there some facet that I didn’t understand? I don’t know. But it stuck in my mind even though it wasn’t a principal operation to my knowledge.

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What about the others? I understand it’s a burden to say chronologically, going back ten years, but you’d said something about three [hijackings]?

The Swissair, TWA and Pan American. The ones that were hijacked to the desert, all three of them, and then eventually all blown up. That was the first big operation.

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That was obviously a major project, but what was the payoff for the Organization in that?

It indebted the PLO to the Organization through Carlos — it was a Carlos operation. At the same time it got one of the Organization people out that was suspected of, well, the gentleman was going to be picked up on his arrival. Who the gentleman was and what plane he was on and what the destination was, I have no idea. But they evidently had to get a man out.

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What was the pay off to the PLO?

Dollars and cents. I was in Paris and was in touch with the people supplying Carlos with the materials for the hijacking. And getting direct reports: I’d be monitoring the frequencies that the communications, during the hijacking, were going out on. During every hijacking operation specific frequencies are assigned because it’s known that the Organization will be listening in. This is the way the Organization keeps the PLO honest, if such a thing is possible.

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Was the Organization involved in the American hijackings?

Not to my knowledge. Everybody jumps on the bandwagon.

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Okay, you’re sitting there, or standing there, in a comfortable apartment or a dingy warehouse, whatever it is where the monitoring equipment is…

Crummy pensione on the Right Bank…

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And you’re hearing the reports coming over. Are you talking in between?

We’re talking about: what the hell are they saying? They’re speaking in Arabic. There was an Algerian there doing the translating. When I’m in Paris if I need protection I have Algerian bodyguards, the kind of guys who would knock off their mother if the price was right.

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Was anyone killed in that one?

No.

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How about another operation?

There was one where, of all things, a Lufthansa plane was hijacked, flown to Africa. I believe it was the co-pilot that was shot and thrown out the door. Maybe the pilot.

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What was your reaction to that?

Disgusted. Very sorry for this one gentleman who was shot. Especially when it came over that the man was begging on his knees not to be shot, and they just put the gun up to his forehead and psssshhht!

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I know you were filled in on the Munich massacre, the Black September thing at the Olympics…

During the 1972 Olympics in Munich, which was one of my first assignments, I tended to collect data and merely be an observer to report to Otto on the events that were taking place. The material, that is, explosives, grenades, weapons were smuggled in through diplomatic pouches.

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Through which country?

Kuwait, and through North Sea ports, particularly Hamburg.

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Were you an observer on [this operation]?

Directly, on site. This was the first big operation I was involved on, early Summer of ‘72.1 didn’t know what was happening until I got there. I was told to get a flight from New York to Brussels, only time I’ve taken Sabina from New York, and then taking the train from there to Germany. Arriving the following morning in Munich where I was met in a house that had been prepared for me. I was taken to a hofbrau house very close to the city hall, and it was explained to me, the operation was to take place this very afternoon.

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How much of what was to happen did he tell you?

That the arms had been moved in, had come through diplomatic pouches, and the operation was due to begin in the early afternoon.

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How did he describe the operation?

Taking of hostages from the Israeli part of the compound. The word had gotten out, and [Mark] Spitz was on the list. He would have gotten it if he had stayed longer. They’d take hostages, to disrupt and hopefully end the Olympics.

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And how long before events actually took place was this briefing?

A few hours. We went out to the main section. I didn’t have much time and after things started popping I didn’t have much desire to get into the spirit of the thing, the Olympics. I just wanted to get the hell out of there.

We were there when the shooting started… The buildings are here [indicates] and the freeway comes virtually parallel with the U-bahn, cross the U-bahn station over the freeway here. The big stadium with that ugly plastic cover was here and on the other side was the place for the track meet. Over in this section was where the quarters were and where the action took place. Surrounding it in a semi-crescent was a raised piece of ground where everyone was standing and where we were.

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Is that the same area where the news camera were shooting from?

Yes. I had a telephoto lens on my camera and I was viewing through that — it was just as good as binoculars, really. I couldn’t really see much of what was taking place. It was more a matter of a personal demonstration to me. Later in the day we went into Munich again, as things were developing, and we’d gone into one of the Lowenbrau beer bars. I said, “I don’t know about you, but the first shots I hear, I’m going under the table. I’ve had it. I want to get the hell out of here.”

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At this time the PLO was still in the quarters?

Yes, very close to the time when they made the transfer. The word came that they’d made the deal to take them to the airport, then that they’d taken them to the airport. We’re following this bit by bit. The news agencies were covering it quite well. Then the news of the shooting and — not bombing, but grenading? I think it’s bombing of the helicopters after the German sharpshooters couldn’t take them out at not more than 100 yards.

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The event concluded. What did you do then?

I wrote up my report and made my drop in Munich, and it was forwarded. I got the first train I could to the farthest point I could get to. That was the beginning of regular trips to Bergen when things got a little hot.

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You mentioned that there are several projects beginning right now, that are in the works…

One operation underway regarding the problems that England is experiencing, depending on who you listen to, labor problems, racial problems, basically Rightist in origin through the Organization’s contacts. This is to lead to a finality. Let me backtrack: when these various IRA men went on their hunger strike in the Mays prison in Northern Ireland, when they died, if anyone was wondering why the reaction hasn’t been terribly severe from the IRA they will find out because of the ultimate operation starting to take effect at this time, which would culminate in the assassination of Prince Charles. I was told first that it was to be on the wedding, now I am led to believe through my contacts that within this dissident faction in our organization, the date is being attempted to be moved up considerably to within a week, not more than ten days from today. In any event, whether it be the dissident factions’ will that will prevail, or the older generation’s ideas that will prevail, they do agree on one point, that Prince Charles will be assassinated through IRA. I believe that it will be by bomb and not by gun. The electronics are already being shipped, and a number of locations are being prepared, since it cannot be absolutely assured because of heavy security on Prince Charles what particular location would be best.

[On November 28, 1992, Reuters New Service reported that an IRA informer had revealed a bomb plot on Prince Charles and Princess Diana that was to have taken place in 1983. There are unsubstantiated accounts of other assassination plots against the Royal couple. — Ed.]

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You mentioned the old faction and the new faction in The Organization; could you cover the differences that they have in attitude towards strategy?

The dissident faction, the youthful faction, differs from the older group in that they wish a more direct, open statement, rather than the subtleties that the older Organization has used. The older Organization will only use assassination when it is in its best interests and necessary; the younger men feel that this should become more policy and not merely a once-in-a-while proposition. The old Organization wishes a very low profile, the younger organization doesn’t concern themselves with any kind of a profile, they merely wish to be moving ahead. They haven’t seen any appreciable movement, and they wish to be more direct in accomplishing their goals, their goals being more economic than political.

Remote Mind Control Technology
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Rumors, Myths and Urban Legends Surrounding the “Death” of Jim Morrison
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Behold, A Pale Horse: A Draft of Danny Casolaro’s Octopus Manuscript Proposal
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Secret and Suppressed,
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