Stillness and Speed: My Story (9 page)

W
HAT DO YOU RECKON
to all that, Dennis?

Dennis: ‘I think Wim is right.’

He says the power in the team lay more with senior players like Bergomi and Ferri.

‘He’s right about that, too. What did they say?’

* * *

B
EPPE
B
ERGOMI
is an impressive, elegant guy. And the defender is still a legend for the Inter fans, of course. He won the World
Cup aged 19. He played for Inter for 20 years. And now he works as a TV commentator most famous for getting emotional at the end of the 2006 World Cup semi-final. Italy had just scored two late
goals to beat Germany and reach the final in Berlin. He shouted:
Andiamo a Berlino!!
(‘We’re going to Berlin!’). It’s like Kenneth Wolstenholme in 1966 or Jack van
Gelder going crazy when Bergkamp scored against Argentina.

Bergomi lives in an apartment near the San Siro. When you see how everything in his home is arranged, you realise that elegance is quite important to him . . .

W
HY DID IT GO SO
badly for Dennis at Inter?

Bergomi: ‘It’s relative. He was very young when he came to us, but he made a
grande prestazione
in the 1993-94 UEFA Cup. He was fundamental to our success in that. So it is
only partially true that it went badly. In the UEFA Cup, he was a really good player and scored seven or eight goals. Also, he was not really well-accepted in the team. The team didn’t help
him. But we did recognise his qualities.’

Pellegrini promised Dennis that Inter would change its playing style to attack . . .

‘I don’t know what was in the mind of the president or the coach. Everyone in Italy at that time was trying to copy the strategy of Milan, but they couldn’t because it was
really a switch of strategy in the Italian philosophy of football. We tried to change but basically we couldn’t do it. So we went back to what we knew. Before Bagnoli we had had five years of
Trapattoni and one year of Orrico. [In 1991] Orrico had wanted to try to copy Milan and it was a complete failure. And with Bagnoli we returned to the style of Trapattoni.’

Tell us about Orrico.

‘He couldn’t really experiment because in Italy this change of strategy needs time, and after one year he didn’t get results so he quit. One year is not enough time to change
strategy. Orrico arrived, I think, with the idea of changing everything. But his idea was three-two-three-two, like before the Second World War! And his experience was limited to Serie B. And this
double WM formation was a really old-fashioned way of playing football, like Vittorio Pozzo. We played this way in two games before the championship started and we were even failing to beat Serie C
teams. In Italy you don’t have time for this! Either your strategy is successful immediately or it’s a failure. And Orrico was not at the high level of Sacchi. I didn’t realise
when I was playing, but now I have studied it and realise the problem was that he was not teaching us how to do it.’

There must have been a culture shock for Dennis coming from Ajax – how do you compare him to the three Germans Inter had before the Dutchman arrived?

‘I think when a big champion arrives, he has to adapt. He has to bring his qualities and dispose them to the team, like Matthaus, Brehme and Klinsmann did. And it was not easy. Matthaus
and Trapattoni fought with each other constantly. They were two very strong, difficult characters! [
slams fist
] Matthaus wanted to be more attacking. They argued about that. And when
Trapattoni said: “OK, go forward,” Matthaus went further back! But Matthaus had a different mentality. He came and said: “OK, tomorrow we are going to win” and they did.
Dennis didn’t have that mentality. I know at Ajax the game is for pleasure and fun. I followed Dennis’s career from when he was young. It’s very difficult when you bring someone
out of that climate . . . you see it also with other players, like Seedorf. He had a troubled career at first at Sampdoria, but later went to Madrid, and came back to Italy with Milan and was a
great success. But it took him time to adapt. After Ajax it is particularly difficult. You’re very young, with a very different mentality and you need
patience
. And Inter was not
patient enough with Dennis, because Inter had not won for many years and they kept changing strategy every year. They wanted immediate results.’

So although it’s a culture clash there was actually quite a small difference between Dennis succeeding and failing? Did some of the fault lie with him?

‘No. He could have done better, of course. But the club was not patient and Dennis was not patient, either. To repeat: during the UEFA Cup Dennis was extraordinary, and I recognise that
absolutely he was the best player. I really remember that. He left a very strong impression, it was a really good sign for Inter. But in my opinion the problem was he couldn’t – they
couldn’t – transmit all his qualities to the team.

‘Dennis’s big difficulties were from a human perspective because probably he couldn’t stand the pressures on him. The media pressure . . . It’s difficult to come to
another culture. So we went to eat together. We hung out together and I tried and the club tried to help him acclimatise, and also to help [Wim] Jonk. Though Jonk is a different character, easier,
more relaxed and humorous.’

Dennis is quite introvert when he doesn’t know people, but he’s really funny and mischievous and open when he feels comfortable. At Arsenal he was the practical joker of the
team.

Bergomi [raises his famous eyebrows in astonishment]: ‘But I think Dennis could have done more to adapt, to become more Italian. With the qualities he had he could have done more. For
example, later, when Ronaldo came, our trainer was Gigi Simoni and we came back again to the real Italian system:
catenaccio
with a
libero
behind, which was me, and Ronaldo on his
own in attack. But we won because Ronaldo adapted to the Italian system.’

Ronaldo was a dribbler with lots of tricks – that wasn’t Dennis’s game at all.

‘Ronaldo was everything.’

Dennis wasn’t interested in playing that way.

‘No, that is clear. Ronaldo can be solo. Dennis is a team player who needed the others. Ronaldo didn’t. We won the UEFA Cup in ninety-eight with him. And we did that with a really
traditional old Italian system.’

What was your opinion of Ottavio Bianchi?

‘There was a conflict, and from my point of view Dennis’s criticisms are fair. But in Italy it is really important to get the result. And Bianchi was successful. As long as there is
the result you can behave pretty much in any way you like.’

What Dennis didn’t like was that Bianchi treated other people disrespectfully
.

‘Yes, and Dennis is completely correct and fair. This type of behaviour is not OK in Italy, either. It’s not simple. Ultimately, Dennis could have managed that relationship better.
And during that season I now understand Bianchi could have behaved better. Probably without going to play tennis during lunch. He should have taken second training.’

He delegated that?

‘Yes, he left the second training to the assistant. But Bianchi was a really strong character, and not an easy person everywhere. Generally, towards people who worked for him, he was not a
nice boss. But I can’t say for sure about the things Dennis saw.’

What about talking about Maradona all the time?

‘Well, Bianchi did talk a lot about Maradona. But then the other players in the team were curious, so sometimes they asked him. As to the other part, in my opinion Napoli became big
because of Maradona, not because of Bianchi! That’s clear.’

Why did Dennis do so much better in England?

‘In England they weren’t used to seeing players of great technical quality like Bergkamp or Zola. The English league was very physical but there was little technical quality. So they
were happy to have these technical players who gave a completely new interpretation, a new perspective of football. [But] in Italy, the football has always been really technical and tactical. [In
the eighties and nineties] we had players like Maradona, Careca, Van Basten, Gullit, Vialli, Mancini . . . all great champions. So it was not such a surprise to see someone like Dennis. In Italy,
Zola was not a
baronetto
at all. When he was in Italy they didn’t even let him play! In Italy he was considered ordinary, but in England he was
“extraordinary”.’

D
O YOU WANT TO
react to any of that, Dennis?

‘First I’d rather hear what Riccardo Ferri has to say’
.

He was critical of Inter – and was critical of you.

‘No problem. Let’s have it!’

* * *

R
ICCARDO
F
ERRI
was unmoved by Bergkamp’s tale of broken promises.

In Holland a promise is a promise . . .

Ferri: ‘And . . .? Look, it happens all over the world! People made me promises all the time, and never kept them. Life doesn’t stop because you are disappointed. I had the same
disappointment with Pellegrini when he promised I could go to Napoli and then I had to go to Sampdoria.’

So it’s just part of football everywhere
?

‘It’s part of
life
! I think it’s Dennis’s problem. I mean, if my son gets disappointed about something, I say: “OK, but it’s not the end of the
world.”’

But Dennis’s criticisms of Inter were much stronger.

‘It’s really absurd that the club promised [Dennis] this, because in the short amount of time, in my opinion, it was not possible to change completely the playing style of the club
with only two players! Bagnoli was a great coach, but he could never be
trasformista
. But the biggest problem was that Inter wanted to compete with Milan, but they tried to do it too fast,
and without building the structure. They just wanted very quick results.

‘I would have been willing to change, but it couldn’t be done quickly. You need interpreters, teachers and you need two or three years. But in Italy this is not possible because you
have to have results immediately. Everything is short term.’

There were also financial problems
. . .

‘At that time, we were very much in the shadow of Milan and we had less money. It was Pellegrini v Berlusconi, so whereas we had a squad of fourteen, Milan had twenty-two top-class
players. They had a much bigger squad. That’s very important. We had thirteen or fourteen good players, but the rest of the squad was basically kids like Tramezzani and Paganin. Milan had
much more. Even after Gullit and Van Basten left, they had Savicevic, Boban, Papin, Massaro . . .

‘But the real problem was that there was no
project
. Milan had a project, but at Inter this never existed. Inter had no concept. At Inter the idea was just “buy great
players” . . . and they gave no thought to how these stars actually functioned. At Milan the players fitted with the philosophy of Arrigo Sacchi: Tassotti, Baresi, Maldini, Costacurta,
Gullit, Van Basten, Rijkaard . . . they all fitted his idea of pressing and playing an attacking game. So Milan bought players in service of the concept, of their zone tactics. But Inter
didn’t do that at all! Bergkamp was a talent, a great talent. But there was never a structure around him that would bring out his qualities. The whole idea was a bad one! Bergkamp was a great
prospect. But he was not Ronaldo or Maradona, players who could create something on their own. They could make the difference in the Italian championship. Dennis could not.

‘Every year Inter bought one great player like a Rummenigge. That was Pellegrini’s “philosophy”: buy one star per year to fight against Milan! But this was not part of a
strategy. Inter is still like this. Still without much means and still without a project. They still have the same idea of buying stars without knowing how they will play together. Look at the
three years since Mourinho. When Inter beat Bayern [in the 2010 Champions League final], Inter was far above Bayern. Since then Inter has spent 140 million euros and where are they? Nowhere in the
league and not in the Champions League. Failure! In the same period Bayern spent 135 million euros – that’s five million less. And now Bayern are the best in Europe. So, in three years:
disaster for Inter! It’s exactly like when Dennis was here. [Inter’s president, Massimo] Moratti has never had a project, though Jose Mourinho and Roberto Mancini created their own
projects. They were trainers who led. So you have this pattern: no vision, no leadership from Moratti, especially since [Giacinto] Facchetti died.’

And where does Dennis fit in all this?

‘The fans were expecting Dennis to be like Van Basten. But if Van Basten had come to Inter and Dennis had gone to Milan, it would have been the other way around. Dennis would have been a
star at Milan and Van Basten would have failed at Inter. He would have done no better than Dennis in that period.’

But you also think Dennis was too young, introverted and anti-social to become the big player he should have been. Sosa called him ‘strange and solitary’ in the press.

‘Ha ha! But it’s true! It’s not an insult. Ruben Sosa is a Latin American guy, and Dennis is from the north. Not a Viking, but, you know,
really
from the north. Like
Jonk as well. Dennis found a nice house, and he wanted to be there with his wife. We used to invite Dennis and his wife, and Jonk and his wife or girlfriend: “Hey, come and eat with us! Come
have dinner with us!” But they never came. Never! Never! Never! We had a nice boat and we invited them, but Dennis was just at home in Civate. We found him rather cold. Everyone in the team
tried, but he was quite cold. He didn’t socialise with us. Sosa was the exact opposite. He was very warm, and friendly,
simpatia,
you know? Funny and friendly, eating with us,
singing, dancing . . . we would all go over to his and have dinner, and sing songs, but always without Dennis. Dennis and Jonk never came. Actually, I roomed with Jonk for a while. I’m
friendly and talkative and for some reason they always put me with these introverts!’